war thunder forum germany suffers

Wouldn't you agree that having a small and fast vehicles helps immensely to flank? Armor. They still exist just can't be unlocked by new players anymore. Just an endemic lack of knowledge of what assets are available to the Germans, 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. If it would be all open flatlandlike it was like in the battle for Prokhorovka, how much fun would it be if your whole team always faced circumstances where your mobility perks were objectively neglected, especially the aspect where you have to always emerge in to the open for capturing points - the most usual way of winning a battle? Like I said earlier I think it's important to take a step back and realize what we are talking about here isn't just a drag race but definitely more complicated than so. Like bombing out caps or sniper ridges. The fast-paced and valiant opener marks a strong, excessive statement right at the beginning, because every detail fascinates: the riffing, the solos, the chorus, pick out whatever you want. When I play american tanks I always use the .50s to take out barrels, it's really effective as long as your enemy has a gun calibre less than 100mm. While the M18 can potentially be used for flanking regardless of tier--this is true of any vehicle--it is also a vehicle that can be wiped out even by lowly 1.0s. One thing to mention is that german 6.7 is actually really good against soviet 6.7, it's the stabilized brit APDS ATGM throwers and impenetrable american T__ heavy tanks that really hurt. The M18's like any vehicle that doesn't get shot. The funny part is that you say thatbut you give absolutely no reasonfor why you saythat. It allows for the a pilot to manually set several engine-related perks on the aircraft while on the fly, with the most important being the radiator and the fuel mixture. Unfornatly the 105mm Tiger II was phased out. The Soviet nation has very little at 6.X--almost as few vehicles as the Americans do at 4.X. Manual Engine Control. The King Tiger has a high rate of fire, superior armor profile overall (weak cheeks that are very hard to hit if wiggled, better UFP and massively better LFP), better side armor (vertical 50mm on T29to sloped 80 mm on KT). Because its slow and big? I'll add as a supposition (GE doesn't share the data) that Germany is probably the first nation people pick up to start. However, due to WT map design, with most maps being rather small and generally favouring brawling, this advantage is often countered by the allies more versatile vehicles. I take the 110G into every BR range before radar SPAA. Canon CAS is quite strong if left unchecked. Stop placing artificial nerfs on German vehicles and weapons; Mk 103s should have the same accuracy as allied autocannons, Panther APCR should have the historical ~260mm of pen instead of the laughable 228mm of pen in-game, and so on. I've said that I'm looking at things that are perceived as suffering but aren't in the interest of finding and isolating the true examples for sake of fixing these things. He can easily continue flank and pen King Tigers from the side. Just look at the Tiger 1H how many Heavy Tanks at 5.3 can roll up to 45 almost 50Km/h. panzer ii light tank military history. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Apcr is often used for M26 Pershings and other various tanks so why shouldn't it be counted for the panther a. In this video, I and a couple of friends play one of the best lineups in the game.#warthunder #germany #friends Many people think that this is a huge advantage the Americans have over Germany and Russia War Thunder T26E1-1 was probably scrapped after the war. Well that's it I guess. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features Press Copyright Contact us Creators . Last thing is that Centurions have a lower top speed than king tigers but have much better acceleration and reactionary mobility, and the ability to fire on the move means they have overall greater effective mobility on the battlefield. 2. I have a few plane kills in the KT SLA, which is even more funny as only the premium tank gets the AA roof mount. Once he has spotted you, you are basically dead. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. He usually has like 5 different options. But like I've said, this is not an issue affecting only Germany. Wouldn't you agree that having a small and fast vehicles helps immensely to flank? 5. Ugh. - If it is a sufficiently big map he will just cap before you even get to see the cap point. Making it for the M18 much easier to make assumptions about the position of the Panther than vice versa. 1. So don't play into his game, your typical player basereallygets a kick out of surprises. Yeah, i totally wonder why you never see people playing them, but I still see the same ol team comps of 90% tiger 2s. Working at 6.3 turned out to be pleasant, as I found my way into 6.3 and 6.7 matches most of the time. The 5.7 Tiger need APCR for that, which the 5.3 Tiger doesnt have. What will you bring? If we're going to go with just the general platitudes then it's kind of a boring discussion that you would clearly be winning if we don't take a deeper look at the issues with German mobility other than "keeping pace", whatever that means. Least I've been setting off ammo in them basically everytime. As someone who has played all nations, I have had the opportunity to play with and against German tanks. 7. Because they know that there will be most probably a trap when they arrive at the cap point. Same procedure as with Panthers. Fapadoska, 1 hour ago in Questions to the Team. Falcon is especially broken as it handles like a light tank with 110mm of pen a super rapid fire rate. Pretty unfair that almost all US tanks have those AA HMGs. Your observations are not a statistical fact or some sort of general trend setting. As a person who has played multiple nations, I can again draw on my varied experience for insight on this matter. How do you bounce on a flat piece of armour? - During all that time you will be sitting in your spot hoping that the enemy pops up exactly where you predict it knowing that he could also pop up behind you. The issue is that T__ are better than every heavy in game all the way up until the IS-3, and their BR should reflect that. I mean this thing has a chance to kill KT frontally by spamming around the turret ring and it can take out the gun barrel within 2-3 shots.When the M41 of a German player is destroyed, well you can go panther which is not the best when it comes to maneuvering, or perhaps a puma which can get shredded by .50 CAL. Grant was buried on 4 December 1995 at the cemetery opposite his mansion, with the funeral service held at St Peter and St Paul's Church, Hailsham, East Sussex. Contrary to popular belief there is more then one way to exploit this knowledge. It's strengths clearly outweighs it's burdens when the game is based around city/village structures. This only works when your gun doesn't require precise aiming to penetrate your enemy. Up until only pz 2 is miserable a bit compare to m3 or bt7 etc. ", Road Cycling, Scale Modeling, RC Tank, Military History. I wouldn't mind more open maps, though I must admit I still prefer hard cover to range. And if you talking about the swingfire it's not a good vehicle. If they're not interested in moving the follow up question should be why they don't when in German vehicles. (Oh how many times I have shot the IS6 turret from 400m and all I did was turn the gunner yellow) Plus they have things like T44 which are very bouncy to the 88. panzer ii german light tank sdkfz 121 world war photos. Your best chance would be using Japan yourself, Ah I see. Ok, so you don't agree that it is easier to flank with small and fast vehicles? By War Thunder > General Discussions > Topic Details dungeon eagle, gungeon ant Apr 15, 2021 @ 4:26pm germany suffers panther at 5.7 (it should be higher) Last edited by dungeon eagle, gungeon ant ; Apr 15, 2021 @ 4:52pm The author of this topic has marked a post as the answer to their question. He can easily continue flank and pen King Tigers from the side. And it is this knowledge that will the panther driver often stop from advancing beyond certain points on the map, because he thinks: " There is probably a M18 on the enemy team and based on my experience and knowledge of the map I know that beyong this point there is a high chance that the M18 is somewhere on the edge of the map behind a hill and is waiting till I leave my cover. Many German players will often hang back and camp (which can be good, if done in moderation--Germany gets above average exchange rates this way) but critically, problems arise when these players never do move up. Nah, Freeaboos bash on Germany when its day in Murica and Wheraboos say Deutschland suffers when its day in Yurop (although the Wheraboos are mostly on the Forums and not on Reddit so you don't see Wheraboo posts often) . One advisory to all readers interested in posting: before you do post, be warned that, No matter how well you argue or what evidence you cite, you will inevitably be attacked by the people who cling to beliefs of German victimhood if you speak out against it--, Nuclear Sciences, Robotics, All Things Engineering, History, It's best to make do with what you have at the moment plus its amusing flanking with big bulky vehicles. they turn by applying breaks to one track to initiate the turn. While the M18 can reverse much quicker, it also lurches about far more. Allied CAS i superior. There are major gaps in all the TTs that need to be addressed. While it is true that many people, with all sorts of involvement in other trees, play Germany it is also true that many of the people who play the German tree only play the German tech tree. The complaint is one thats pretty common for all nations--uptiers. While mobility has it's place, it's only one of the triad of armament, armor and mobility. The Tiger II Sla.16 is the one outlier in Germany 6.7. It's strengths clearly outweighs it's burdens when the game is based around city/village structures. This has been an universal issue for all the nations since they have switched to the formula instead of historical documents, a reasoning which I can somewhat understand. pzkpfw ii ausf l luchs 37mm war thunder official forum. With a few more wins per hundred matches, they'd be at that point. The Panther by contrasthave close to no reverse. Well technically everyone suffers but you would have clicked on this otherwise. Well suited for precision bombing, its 2 guaranteed kills. You can go through things but often times you die. The problem here is that Japan doesn't have a lot of players and thus meeting japanese aircraft is pretty rare in RB. Sell, buy or trade War Thunder Items and Services here. If you liked it, feel free to sub. Especially for such high brs. Both the american 76mm and the russian 85mm will penetrate that front plate if not correctly angled. The stock ammo misery for every leos and m48 etc. I never said the hull was bad on the t series i have stated that as long as you don't hit the tracks you pen and the other thread we are in has showed that. His portfolio includes five books and several hundred historical articles.". Not sure why, maybe it's a new bug or there's a spall shield I'm unaware of, but it's really annoying. Getting ahead is stupidly hard. I "like" how you start out this topic with some kind of meme-theme, that there's nothing to it more than it being perceived as "suffering!" As someone who has played all nations, I have had the opportunity to play with and against German tanks. That jump is massive and not only deprives the player of the relevant experience they'd get in that 2.3 BRs of progression but also of the lineup for support they'd have if they had the stuff from the BRs in between, As with other nations, one death leavers are a problem for Germany. Also since ground ai. Aside from the pre-nerf Horton flying wing, Germany really hasn't had a plane that could both match allied CAS's ability to make multiple strikes against hard targets and simultaneously hold its own in securing the airspace. Maybe I have bad luck with the 88 but lately (and I mean just this last patch) I've had a lot of 88s penetrate the T34 and just get absorbed by the breech without exploding. The M18's like any vehicle that doesn't get shot. I have said quite the opposite honestly. And the stock ammo of the german M48A2C is the same as the US/Chinese M48A1, but somehow the US/Chinese M48A1 is at a higher BR. With things as they are with just a little more zeal in pursuing the objectives, Germany would do just fine. In a case of 1535,9 it was established that an individual who suffered particular damage over and above that inflicted upon the general population could maintain a separate action for damages. Usually it's the other way around, the M18 waits around for a target and looks around corners with the third person view camera. I haven't shared your issues i go through a T series and it dies normally and I'm more prone to freak out if a IS-6 rolls over a hill than a T series. T__ turret has double layered spots where it goes as high as 300mm, angled cheeks, and is straight up thicker even at it's weakest points. The Tiger II's gun is stabilized but it doesn't bounce. And that's just fighting american 6.7 with other 6.7s good luck in 5.7 vehicles when you get uptiered, lol. All of these things are important, with at least one being exceptional for a vehicle to be any good generally. Tell me what 6.7 what tanks have penetrating the side of the T series. - He will go around you (most maps allow that) and pop up in you rear. The game is based around combined arms battles on air, land, and sea with vehicles from the Great War to today. That being said I wanted to ask them to get answers, because for me it is important. I am losing a little over half my team (if my team is made up of mainly germans, which it generally is, otherwise about a quarter leave) before the 3 minute . The Panther, by contrast, is reasonably quick for a medium tank, retains decent armor and is vastly better armed. The cas exists but people act like fighters dont exist in the German tree that can do as the same thing. More to the point, your initial comment is THE biggest disconnect from reality that I've read in LONG time. Mobility: The complaint: One of the most common complaints that is leveled against the nation of Germany is a perceived lack of mobility. Come on, seriously? I don't have too much preference on maps as a matter of range. None of this is specific to Germany or the Americans mind you. That vehicle is more treating. Thats because the Germans don't have more modern light tanks in the game. Like this moments when the T95 suddenly reaches the cap point 10 seconds before the match ends. Come on, you know that your arguments is purely theoretical and doesn't work on most WT maps. As for the Bf 110G, it is superb--it's only fault is that it's ranked as a Tier II rather than a Tier III. Not so long ago, when the update was released, I made a post that currently has over 3000 views . is getting boosted taking them out requires specific loadouts and concentration, which makes the CAS player very susceptible for enemy fighters, this is further exacerbated by the poor balance among the nations at different br.s. Most of the time they use their speed to cap the mid point rather than setting up a scouting position. Despite the hype, Allied fighter-bombers are not hypermaneuverable UFOs when they're laden with their payloads--they're easy meat for things like the Bf 109s and La-5s. As said above, aircraft carriers don't exist in arcade. Are there plans to finally separate ww2 (and pre-ww2) vehicles from post ww2 (like vehicles made during the cold war and after) in battles? According to the complaint, the mobility differential between the Germans tanks and the others tanks means that the Germans simply cannot compete in RB GFs. Yeah, how is that even an argument? And I've never had issues with the breach on a T series unless I've hit the outside of it or its well past 500 meters which is were the 88 will struggle you can still go through the hull of it but need to be more cautious as a whole. Powered by Invision Community, Addressing Germany's real problems: finding the truth behind "Germany suffers!". Not enough apparently the M41 appears to be shrouded in mediocrity that is the M41. ..and I'm not talking about the vehicles, they're OK-ish. Just shoot turret for an easy penetration anywhere within 2km, and watch as the king tigers ammo gives a nice firework display. Want Germany to be more competitive at 5.3-6.7? The m41 is a welcomed addition. And i find that the 88 one shots the T series rather easily now through the turret. People wildly overstate the extent of this. He can just wait till you start to cap and go around you. Long range eliminations tend to be how I foil most of the cappers I kill. Second, almost every US tank has .50 cals for AA purposes. Every time I play 5.7, I see a lot of Tiger I. NO 4.3 FRENCH TANKS? FRENCH ATGMS ARE NON-EXISTENT. He can get to cap first and setup an ambush. The real question would be if you can deny the enemy taking the capture point from long ranges, which would be a resounding no. Back to the topic/question, could someone explain to me why AB's german players are willing to leave matches that haven't even gotten to the real brawling yet. Or this amazing times when you play the tractor simulator trying to get you slow vehicle to this surprising spot which takes you forever, and hoping that noone shoots or bombs you on the way there. T-80U only fixes armor (although weakspots veeerrry preminent), slightly better HP/T (still -10 kph reverse though), and a slightly better reload (6.5s but still slightly slower than other 120mms). And if he turns it to the side literally shoot the huge side of the turret that will be exposed. Ferdi is 7.0 and I did managed 17 kills a match. The best editions of doctor oz supplement pills for ed Florus are Duker s, 2 vols. Same procedure as with Panthers. Download Free PDF View PDF. Powered by Invision Community. To believe that mobility is the only thing matters is to ignore almost everything that matters in a match. I am sure that these questions are on many peoples' minds and you are asked at least some of these questions often. By observation, I guess, a lot of players dont do this. Which means all you need to do is spot him first, then he's basically done for. Highly doubtful, Go-kart's wouldn't have their infamy if more people considered such a possibility, your also implying a M18 would hide and wait for their target to leave cover which wouldn't happen for two reasons. You can't aim when they shot in your direction. That's your personal preference. And as I've tested myself it was consistent to take out the 2 crew members on the one side of the breach ay 400 meters. This is of course a burden if you're in a CQC situation where the APDS will easily pen your frontal armor. And in realistic they are mainly on maps with japan fighting on one side. Alternatively they could bring in an ground attacker with a better CAS loadout, but in turn be utterly outmatched when it comes to fighting for control of the sky. But in that case the T95 is also a good flanker. There are many, many more ways in which Germany is claimed to suffer--these are just a few that I chose to address for this first post. The turret armor isn't much. Scriptures from many world religions, science facts, safety & reminder tips, cuisine, sports, books, art, music, movies, TV. Are king tigers unplayable? Thats why it is so extremely annoying when you have to shoot the turret. Objectives are death traps usually placed in a way that does favour German CATs, but you know that quite well. In a 1 on 1 I would just throw a dice and pick one possible option hoping that he will appear there? Panther speedcross country on flat terrain is42km/h. An uptier will barely affect the performance of an M18. In a 1 on 1 I would just throw a dice and pick one possible option hoping that he will appear there? Yes, but just pointing out that "Japanese bias" has been used before. For instance: in the M18's case, this is manifest in its far greater bounciness. (Petrol tanks under turret basket magicallyexplode when turret penned). It's obvious which has the better hull where as its obvious who has the better turret. Just an endemic lack of knowledge of what assets are available to the Germans. Which also has bombs as well. I've been playing the Su-100P lately (pretty underrated, but could still use a lower BR to match the regular Su-100) and it baffles me how many pumas I am seeing from 5.7-7.7. Those things can shrug off even the 10.5 in close combat. Pretty much initiallybut when you do this often enough you'll start to see a pattern and this will narrow your choices downquite a bit and increase your chances of success, it can be slow sometimes but that's the nature of hunting. Or is it? While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. Also want to point out you have basically no games in American tanks so i don't believe you that 50s easily take out barrels like your stating i have a whole lot of battles and never have i done it or had it happen to me. Bouncing for when we are talking about the gun of Hellcat (especially the 90mm), Marder and Archer. The reverse speeds of all of these tanks mean you must step forward progressively, rather than figuring on advancing and reversing on a whim with them as you would with others. They have large gun built on small and light chassis, so the weight of the gun makes it bounce after braking. Other nations have a lot of fast backups with good guns, like the M18, T114, M50, ASU 85, Falcon etc. It bounces off and does little or no damage when pens. Meanwhile, what is expected of the high skill T__ player? So you have to switch ammo which is a drawback. Furthermore, using simple math, after 2 Minutes the number of places where the M18 could be is much bigger than the number of places where the Panther could be. The turret is 200mm thick unless you shoot the edges. I just read this post and simply had to react because you draw all the wrong conclusions. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. And that goes for anyone regardless of nation. Theres was no reason to add them for almost every US tanks in War Thunder. The Challenger 2 is the third vehicle of this name, the first being the A30 Challenger, a World War II design using the Cromwell tank chassis with a 17-pounder gun. The allegation is that because the Germans Tigers and Panthers cannot keep pace with the Americans M18s, the Russians T-34-85s and other like vehicles that the Germans simply cannot compete with these vehicles or the teams that use them. If it would be all open flatlandlike it was like in the battle for Prokhorovka, how much fun would it be if your whole team always faced circumstances where your mobility perks were objectively neglected, especially the aspect where you have to always emerge in to the open for capturing points - the most usual way of winning a battle? A T34 hull down has 200-300mm of frontal protection, 150mm-200mm of side protection, and 200mm of rear protection. Weaponry, Spitfires can see the issue. Sometimes it works. Because heat rounds don't care about armor. Yes, but we should be discussing balance based on tanks that are actually in the tech tree. Theirs only one stabilized apds atgm thrower and its premium. And its mo different than tiger 2 players shaking their turret to get a bounce. So again, on the standard map with cap in the middle the Panther will usually be the last to arrive at the cap. Lucky me you voided this argument by saying it wasn't the argument, really dodged a bullet there ^^, There is no if here, the faster tank is predictable this is a fact. In general, German win rates are in the 40s even at their lowest and this means that they're near the balancing point (the 45-55% range, being within +/-5 of 50%). He usually has like 5 different options. They usually tend to be just as useless as those M22s too. I've had heat go through and kill the guy that fired the round but never not blocked the shot. As a mainly (90% of battles or more) German player I have to debunk one thing. Next is allied CAS which gets thrown out as another massive problem Germany faces, but it really shouldn't be since Germany has objectively the best CAS in the game all the way up to 8.0. You cant carry against so many players. Isn't it a bit dishonest to completely "forget" to bring out the more negative aspects of the panther? Are you serious? history projects. Tracks cover most of the hull so thats a no-go unless you're literally 10m away. The rest including pz iv and pz 3 is pretty balanced in my opinion. Just an observation maybe its just me. But how often do you see good teamplay in randombattles? And it is this knowledge that will the panther driver often stop from advancing beyond certain points on the map, because he thinks: " There is probably a M18 on the enemy team and based on my experience and knowledge of the map I know that beyong this point there is a high chance that the M18 is somewhere on the edge of the map behind a hill and is waiting till I leave my cover. Nope you leave them to their own meansor use them as bait if you want to be a jerk about it. A COMMENTARY ON THE BOOK OF LEVITICUS - Bonar. It would actually give Germany some nice, War Thunder map friendly brawling options, like T-34's, IS-2's, T-54's, as well as some lower BR MBT's with decent armour, like T-55's, T-72's etc. In an uptier when being met by a T54. that's it. In the early days I would have now I just think its better to grab a turtle and snipe, small and fast is for fun whenyou want to explore or get bored. That is basically telling your enemy "I am here" and to commit assisted suicide. I want to see where you are shooting and with what cause even when i play the AMX M4 which has 215mm of pen btw I've never bounced off the side of a T series tank. The only situation where the Panther would in a clear advantage is a plain map where the M18 has no chance for covered approach. The Germany newbies will complain that their chosen tank sucks and the Germany veterans are in their meta premiums taking out entire enemy teams. Thread seems to highlight points some might see as a way to improve gameplay. The Brit needs 2-3 good hits to kill the KT, while the KT just takes one hit to blow the Cent up with huge APHE. When you do see them, they won't make up 100% of the team composition and they won't even make up 100% of the UK composition since there is a chance for there to be Charioteers and Cent Mk 1s to be thrown into the mix. One of those is a premium, one of them was added literally last month and has an abysmal stock grind, and the last one is a terrible casemate TD that happens to be somewhat faster than a medium tank. The T-72 is mediocre in forward mobility, and has a painful -4kph reverse. sdkfz 123 panzerspahwagen ii luchs fast . Despite the complaints about Germany's WRs, they're not bad really. And as a you tube person showed in his video and based on the evidence presented its quite obviousEast Germany will carry Germanyand save top tier balance. warrior412, February 10, 2020 in General & Upcoming, Germany has a p-47 just like the allies? He is guaranteed to be faster at the cap point and can set up an ambush. His vocals stand in contrast with the somewhat polished production. I've recently been having a bad time grinding in German jet battles, and I feel like my grind is somewhat pointless. The turret is ok, not the best, but gives the 76mm and 85mm some trouble. In that experience, I have found that. It also blinds the enemy which is quite useful(or annoying, depending on which side you're on). Now the GER 6.7 lineup is missing a proper medium to counter some of the russian meds. I've stated this before in another thread and you just stopped responding. Armor profile is meh also and they are abit slower than the tiger 2s surprisingly. With a few more wins per hundred matches, they'd be. Incorrect in so many levels. At 6.7 the US T series are much more survivable when it comes to being hit. Sohow exactly do I do that? If anything i insist you grind out to the T34 play about 100 games you'll tend to find that the two are rather close to compare. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Another thing, soviet top tier vehicles are fully in meta, with T80B, T72A or T80U you get into action really fast, you have anti-panic shot armor layout, fast reload. Russians are a mixed bag but to Kill an IS6 or IS3 is usually a combination of skill and luck as they are mostly immune to the long 88. King Tigers are too slow and obvious to really bother with going for caps, and their armor isn't reliable enough to use as a spearhead for an attack. And their armor won't save them. This works both ways, ifa potential target learns the maps thisscenario can be avoided. - Panther armour is easier to use and still ok. No need to angle, just point the front towards the enemy. buy panzer ii amp luchs the world war ii Panther APCR should have the historical ~260mm of pen instead of the laughable 228mm of pen in-game, and so on. Puma 50mm Panzergranate has pretty low post pen damage on higher tier tanks. Tried to flank with the Tortoise? Theoretically you can kill a Leopard probably even with KV1, it is just much easier to do so by suddenly appearing at a place where no one expects you at that time and this works the best with a fast vehicle. I've heard that damage output might be linked to vehicle tiers and the Puma is just rank 2. The second was the Persian Gulf War era Challenger 1, which was the British army's main battle tank (MBT) from the early 1980s to the mid-1990s. (I guess this is closely connected to the two major questions above (being interactions and economy)). Not meta. Allied tanks have a thinner top armor in general than the German and Soviet tanks, which makes a high pen round not a necessary feature to get kills from the air. Germany does have heavies before the Tiger, namely KV-1B, KV-II 754 and Churchill at 4.0 and KV-1C at 4.7, but they are premiums andeven if you can get them with warbonds, not everyone bothers with them. All in all, these things boil down to the sort of trade offs that are to be expected. Of course the thick armor and good gun can be an advantage. If an M18 is careening down a street and a Panther materializes at the end of it and takes a shotit's not going to be a good day for the M18. Oh definitely trade-offs are to be expected. Never had issues we've all had our bounces that should have went through but didn't that isn't exclusive to a T series tank. MidCii; Jul . And yes theoretically the bigger and slower tank could try the same tactic, just that it would take him much longer to react, he would be easiert to spot and aim at, and you would give the enemy more time to shoot at you when you cross open terrain. Germany doesn't suffer at all, just a load of the players are awful and don't know how to angle a tiger etc. Most German fighters can either take a 500kg bomb or a 250kg bomb. If you turn it to the side you just shoot the huge side of the turret. If he sees that you do dare to cap he will just rush back because he has the speed. I will never understand whats inside Gaijin dev team, but they should add a German Mig 29, instead of waiting until russia gets a better plane first, as always. If you don't. While I played my Germans at 5.7, uptiers beyond 6.0 were very rare. 5. It's not pleasant to head into an area that's being directly contested, but if you want to win that's how you do it. Allied CAS has way more firepower than Axis one. And yes theoretically the bigger and slower tank could try the same tactic, just that it would take him much longer to react, he would be easiert to spot and aim at, and you would give the enemy more time to shoot at you when you cross open terrain. Otherwise we can also assume incompetent Panther players who just drive on the highest hill and stand in the open hoping that noone sees them and try to snipe enemies. Terrible survivability (carousel and 3 crew). Pointing it down doesn't do anything as I've found. Also hull down does not stop long 88 or 100mm from penetrating you and kill or wipe out your turret crew. All in all, these things boil down to the sort of trade offs that are to be expected. - Panther is a medium tank and cheaper to spawn. In a standard WT match, do I try to command people using the chat to go to certain positions which they won't do? Two world wars and two pandemics are just a few of the many historic events witnessed by Sister Andre during her 118 years. Click here to jump to that post. while proclaiming yourself in some sort of 'neutral good' position. France truly suffers, the major trees offer too much, France needs more! Well you know what they say, the turtle always wins. 1. For anyone who has ever played War Thunder and certainly for those who have perused the forums, the line Germany suffers! is probably something youve heard before. It's just so effective and has a good size-able ammunition pool. Example, an M18 is freaking fast compared to a Panther or any other German Tank of that tier. Even then you aren't going to see UK tanks in 100% of your matches. The most frustrating thing about these engagements is how random it feels to play against a T__. What plans do you have to try and tackle this issue? - Only usableTiger I is the 5.3 Tiger I. Japan's OP type 90 has been given an equal. but in a game where you play the same maps over and over again and know all the ways hideouts. german 6.7 is actually really good against soviet 6.7. The likes of P-47s and Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure the skies of the battlefield. #warthunder #warthundermemes #warthunderfunny #warthunderclipsTwitch: Twitch.t. Allied CAS is absolutely by far and away superior, only the 37mm armed Bf-110G is superior to allied cas, it's actually really good. It's scary and you die whichever you run into. Turret is 200mm at it's weakest and will bounce if the enemy angles or is at long range. What makes teams such an acute problem? Armor is lolpened by DM33 and higher. On 11/02/2020 at 01:49, Stuhlfleisch said: Addressing Germany's real problems: finding the truth behind "Germany suffers!". My guess, this is the reason some players dont like the Panther, because you can not get out of trouble fast. Powered by Invision Community. Is this being discussed? another thing that hurts germany 5.3-6.7 to much its the fact that GAIJIN thinks that low armor = low br, thx to this we have tank like m41 / pt76 / m50 / t92 / ru-251 etc., tanks that can deal w/o problem other tanks like t54 but in game they are figthing vs tiger 1. The T29 has a better gun and marginally better mobility, as well as better mantlet armor. You have to be reactive rather than proactive and take advantage of mistakes made by allied players. Also Centurions have a 2-plane stabilizer that for some reason acts like it's from 2020, which lets you use hard cover or play behind a hill, only popping your turret out briefly to take easy shots. 1. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. The argument is that a more mobile tank has the better "tools", traits call it however you want to exploit this knowledge. Also, let's not forget that Germany has a proper line-up of SPAAs till 8.0, if you discount the gap between 6.7 and 8.0, so 1.3BR gap. I'm a regular war thunder player if you want to contact me= discord= TelDu3998we also have our own discord server https://dis. I'm also fine with the T30 at 6.7 since it has such a long reload, but the T34 really ought to be 7.0 just because of how ridiculous it is against 5.7s in a downtier. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. If you spot him first and don't manage to kill him with the first spot you are dead even if he can't pen you from the front. It is a medium tank like the Panther II or T-44-100. (well until last update and the introduction of M41). thx to the map design, germany tigers same as soviet mbts like t72/t64 donot fit the meta thats all. This by the way also the reason why you quite often see the SDKFZ 234, a BR 2,7 vehicle, in 6.7 matches. True, I had the T-44 in mind when I made that post though. Not meta. It requires however quite some skill to shoot targets in RB from a far and you still lose if noone caps. Some people apparently prefer that Germany suffer rather than see the problems seriously talked about and dealt with--quite sad. There is 0 reason why an AD-4 or P-47 should be causing you any issue. Which isn't as many as the P-47 you still get access to the same 1,000 pounder and 500 pounder it gets just not at once. Centurions have a 2-plane stabilizer that for some reason acts like it's from 2020, which lets you use hard cover or play behind a hill, only popping your turret out briefly to take easy shots. While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. I agree though that the lines should be redone, but not only for Germany but for all the nations. If the team melts, the team melts. Neither Soviets, Brits nor Ger vehicles have them, beside some prems or some advanced sub-types. In which I have to say no, it's not ONLY the Germans that have bad reverse speeds. I think it's important to call out that there are a lot of different aspects to mobility. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. while proclaiming yourself in some sort of 'neutral good' position. Oh and by the way, many people do drive BT5s and M18 on high tiers because they are freaking fast and their guns can pen flanks of more modern tanks. Germany has some of the best CAS, the best SPAA, the best light tanks, and just the best overall line up at 6.7 yet they are generally performing in the range or sometimes below that of worse nations at the same BR despite facing the same threats such as France, Italy, and Japan. Turret armor>>>hull armor for a number of reasons. The T34 where as it has more penetration it has a longer reload and solid shot which recently seems to have suffered a reduced damage output off it round. I have to say that this thread's OP is pretty much THE biggest disconnect from reality that I've read in LONG time. (small note, i forgot the T__ has cast armor, it's frontal protection is actually 190mm at it's weakest. Clearly you haven't seen Gaijin's big maps from afar before. Thats why you will often see lack of initiative and decisiveness on German teams. He was 60 years old. Also, you're making it sound like the T__ has bad hull armor, which it absolutely doesn't. I lately used my FW190 D13 with one 500kg bomb as Fighter/Ground Attacker. An uptier will barely affect the performance of an M18. To say that Germany suffers over this is wrong. I like Wallonia, I hate Kursk. Probably you should just Okha the last bomb into the target, cause rearming takes too long anyways. If it's perfectly fine as a comparison, then why is CQC fighting the rulewhen GJ is designing maps,while we clearly can make it a more interesting battle if every nation can face their strengths and shortcomings on the battlefield. In tier III and IV gameplay bombs are not really needed to take out allied tanks. its a combo of bad general movility (its not only foward speed its also traverse speed and reverse speed) and bad gun handling (turret traverse speed and gun elevation speed) mixed with a terrible map design that make the game some kind ofcall of duty playstyle. Absolutely you're right on that point, but let's turn the tables here for some perspective. Those T-Heavies are redicoulus. While mobility has it's place, it's only one of the triad of armament, armor and mobility. According to the complaint, proof of German suffering is had in German win rates--which are often lower than their Allied peers WRs. Which is why its more rewarding when they pull it off as they had to put more effort into making it work and that's what people need nowadays a challenge. It's as hard to shoot a the turret of a tiger 2 as it is to shoot a T series turret. The latter is mostly forgotten as in this gamewe currently only have a very basic steering system wherethey turn by applying breaks to one track to initiate the turn. Even I--a German player myself--am commonly hounded over this, despite presenting a great deal of strong testimony thats based on many years experienc. T28 with 305mm of frontal armor at 6.3? That's where the Panther gets stuck due to bad low speed mobility. And the you said the atgms you made it sound like they were common place. Uptiers are a pervasive issue for every nation at one point or another, with the severity of this problem varying widely. Also, most capture points are arranged such to allow for substantial firing work into/out of them from such ranges. Last time I played my king tiger I shot the T34s barrel as that was the only spot I knew I could reliably disarm him, then he just took out my barrel with .50s and I got killed by one of his teammates. While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. FInally we can do much more than to just get flanked. An Panther however loses his main advantage of better armor. And no matter what is the br setting whatever times you get a new vehicle even at 8.7 you have to start the whole thing again. "situational" any map with a rock, wall, or building allows you to take advantage of the stabilizer. 6. What about T95? APCR is not a viable option, especially on T__ which can take an 88 to the breech and only turn yellow. for example to prove what i said u can see that with panther A br reduce to 5.7 germany teams improved a lot, because panthers have much better gun handling than tigers. As for the Panthers' turret traverse, except for the D variant, all are quite well suited for engagement at medium to long ranges. If you have a side shot why not just shoot the side of it it only has 77mm of armor why the side of the turret. I'll give you a half point for this one as I clearly said the M18 will head to your spawn after it caps, Well if it makes you feel better stranger things have happened. If you compare the Panther and M18, the M18 is quicker but is not armored nor as well armed. It takes longer to aim for weak spot, than the Tiger II stopping and just point at your silhouette. Also, you're very wrong about Tiger syndrome. This puts Germany in a lose/lose position when choosing their plane to call in. When you have 2 identical vehicles performing differently by a noticeable margin with the only variable being the people who play them, it really makes you wonder. One last thing I forgot is american tanks have .50s, so good luck aiming for weak spots when your enemy is blinding you and taking out your barrel literally as soon as he spots you. Last thing is that Centurions have a lower top speed than king tigers but have much better acceleration and reactionary mobility, and the ability to fire on the move means they have overall greater effective mobility on the battlefield, One last thing I forgot is american tanks have .50s, so good luck aiming for weak spots when your enemy is blinding you and taking out your barrel literally as soon as he spots you. Hell even the FV4202 has a strong enough turret to confidently bounce long 75s and russian guns. Eh, you can get the same effect with having a slow vehicle suddenly appear where no one expects it at a particular time, it also brings a more shock and awe effect as its victims try to fathem what they are looking at and how it gotthere, thegood times to be had Oh and by the way, many people do drive BT5s and M18 on high tiers because they are freaking fast and their guns can pen flanks of more modern tanks. And the Tiger 2s consistently bounce shells they are by no means slouches and have a thicker hull than the T series which will say no to most rounds that fly at it outside of apds which can be angled to avoid for the most part and or heat. Other options like FW's with 1000kg bomb drops are just too bad in a fighter role, as well as the Me 262 Pulkzerstrer. These same players will often say that German vehicles lesser mobility means the Germans simply cannot compete with the more nimble Allied vehicles--ignoring Germanys other merits. The ATGMs aren't common place but considering germany doesn't get SS.11s until 7.7 it does show the extreme technology advantage the brits have. By and large, Germanys main strength is firepower with armor being the secondary asset. He just needs to find the right way to flank you. Download Free PDF View PDF. Eh, the significance of this is overstated. While it is true that there were +1.0 uptiers some of the time, it was not perpetual as some people claim. Plus there are only few maps thatfavor this strategy. Welcome to r/Warthunder. German early jets are outperformed by pretty much by everything at their br. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. I wrote Panther II and T-44-100, which are the medium tanks of BR 6.7-7.0, actual competitors to the Cent 3. When I review the player profiles of those in the matches I am in, I commonly find such single nation players are the ones who struggle the most. I'd certainly replace the Hs 129B-2/MK 103 if the Bf 110G was a Tier III vehicle. I agree that between 8.7 and 9.7 Soviets have overall bad mobility, but i strongly disagree that T80B, T80U and BMP3 have bad mobility. panzer ii ausf l luchs mit bildern panzer panzer ii. Join the Discord Here: https://discord.gg/cgctjTR5hjHope you all enjoy this video/short from an interesting moment in-game! 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. The T28 is indeed scumy, not because its to op but because its almost the same tank as the T95 but at a lower br also the side armor thing matters a lot, this is a slow tank, THE slowest tank actually, the panther and tiger have enough speed to compansate for it unlike the HUGE top speed of 13 km/h that the T28. When it comes to the points I made about the armor, I have had my AMX-13 bounce off the side turret numerous times, it really is that thick. It's not a perfect strategy as it weakens the cheeks, but I've had a lot of smart american players turn their turret at the last second for an easy bounce. Germany has a P-47 that lacks bombs and rockets, which means it is not burdened by those as distractions or dead weight in the case of opposing fighters. In other words it's very hard to find a proper backup. While German vehicles cannot quite match others vehicles in a drag race, this does not mean German vehicles are bad. As a seasoned German player, I can tell you their firepower is at least as valuable as the Allies' speed. Considering Im an experienced player who has done quite well in some Germany tanks that have been thoroughly derided, Id lean towards saying youre justwrong. There's also the issue of the T__ having 6 crew all very well spaced apart, so if by some miracle I get lucky enough to do damage the T__ will just reverse away at high speed and repair. Not being able to be constructive in any way seems key to yourself. 4. The only real difference between the 2 is the people playing them. Penetrations do just little damage. Thus then other nations get the impression that Germany is both OP, but still their players while about wanting better tanks. Justifications for War and Peace in the Scriptures of the Abrahamic Religions. Just because there would be more open maps doesn't mean we can't have CQC maps. (well until last update and the introduction of M41). You can use it, for the Tiger I lovers the way to go. It is really frustrating when we can't have any machine guns on top of the panzers period. For special purposes I still have my Ju-288 with its two SC1600 bombs. What? As a seasoned German player, I can tell you their firepower is at least as valuable as the Allies' speed. Thats why you will often see lack of initiative and decisiveness on German teams. For instance: in the M18's case, this is manifest in its far greater bounciness. . This can be minimized if you slow down first (knowing there is an enemy out there). so german jets are not useless compared to their opponents? Call me when it has the bombs and rockets just like the allies. Germany should rely on armor but more often than not it is countered with vehicles that can lol pen. In an one on one battle with one cap point andrough, uneven terrain you will lose against the M18 in your panther 8 out of 10 times. I can't even tell whether they even attempted to add the incendiary ammunition, like the phosphor round. You can do just as well with a vehicle that has different strengths if you use those strengths correctly. Thats why the Germans tend to be passive. This is why nobody takes anyone who believes in tygor syndrom seriously. I am sure that these questions are on many peoples' minds and you are asked at least some of these questions often. People like to complain about the cause being UK 6.7, but tanks like the Panther II have almost double the games than any of the UK tanks. Noone does the same with panthers. encyclopedia. Also, most capture points are arranged such to allow for substantial firing work into/out of them from such ranges. Top tier meta is good survivability, mobility, and gun handling, as armor doesn't matter with laser rangefinders and high velocity APFSDS along with lots of CQB maps making weakspots easily hit. If you pen hull, his gun is still operational and he just shoots you. Isn't it also truethat many of the people who play the american tree only play the US tree? As the matter relates to teams' statuses and ticket bleed, the capture point's alignment once captured is ended from the moment it is captured until the moment that hold on it is broken or the game ends. And T topically blow up now if you go through the turret. And I've never lost my barrel to 50s ever in all the time I've played German tanks. If by any standards the Panther is far more stable due to its suspension, what does that make the Sherman series, especially in a CQC situation where the medium low speeds are to its' advantage? I'm talking about the teams steamsad The merits of ground vehicles rely on the triad--armor, firepower and mobility. While the M18 can potentially be used for flanking regardless of tier--this is true of any vehicle--it is also a vehicle that can be wiped out even by lowly 1.0s. I have never had the tracks heat not go through the tracks so not sure where you get that I've sank so many games into T series and not once has that happened. Then you have very bad chances to win as USA, since you won't be able to flank them. By Absolutely you're right on that point, but let's turn the tables here for some perspective. Also we know the stories about the feared King Tigerpacks who slowly roam the map and suddenly appear in your rear. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. The most disappointing part is that the 7.92s seem to always be under performing and relative to the 13mms too. And since most Panther drivers know that, they usually just camp. They are the equivalent to the surge of M22s that the allies occasionally see when some overly loud youtuber decides to make a video about "haha ebic meme tank"causing an influx. You can flank it and still fail to pen with many of the guns at this BR. As if the game and the race to the capture point ends the moment they get to it and then it just sits there waiting for the Panther to roll in. Maps in air battles are sometimes given to br.s that have no way of properly using them (I hear top jets get tiny maps sometimes) and low speed props get huge maps sometimes (even in jets some of the maps make no sense, why would I fly an Me262 for ten minutes to stress out about my 2 sec window to hit an a.i. If you do spot him racing between the hills you will have difficulties to shoot him because the time window where he is the ope is rather short. What do you expect? Side turret of T__ is also twice as thick as king tiger so it's less vulnerable to flanking. When I played my 6.0s, uptiers to 6.3 and 6.7 were common but things worked out well. A Do335 can do a lot of damage when left alone, but stands utterly no chance of outflying a P-47. Call me when it has the bombs and rockets just like the allies. They die as soon as literally any heavy pulls up and just the purpose of giving the enemy free RP and SL. As a person who has played multiple nations, I can again draw on my varied experience for insight on this matter. Denying that problem only makes it worse. Is a panther really a good vehicle for flanking? But there almost no such maps in the game. It is almost exactly the same as the normal Tiger II, about the same play time yet it has a 47% WR compared to 43%. Thus, links were forged between the crime of public nuisance and the tort of private nuisance at an early stage in the development of the common law. Think a bit ahead. germany 5.3-6.3 problem its the same as soviet mbts 8.7-10.3 problem. What's clear is how later German vehicles are designed to deal with tanks at long range, making use of frontal armor, penetreation and RoF. The T-80B has ok mobility for it's BR (~25HP/T vs ~27+ for other tanks), but still has terrible reverse of -10kph wheras other tanks can go -30kph or more in reverse. East Germnay also has access to the BMP-2 as well. . Hell no, you can still get kills if you have a decent team and play smart. Only salt and betrayal.Thanks for watching!Subscribe for decent content next time (hopefully). I like Abandoned Factory, I think Middle East is trash. From mud, through blood, to the green fields beyond. And the side of the turret doesn't really mean alot as you can still punch through it with basically the same thing as the other you die no matter what so if you good up that shot its on you. Uptier your Panthers that can't even penetrate the side of the T__ turret? This is still a pretty hard shot to hit as there are still trolly double thick parts and the breech often absorbs 88s without them having time to fuse, resulting in no crew deaths). You have the turret, lfp, and anywhere on the hull as long as you don't hit the tracks. As a bad player I would say that German ground vehicles require a lot of patience to play effectively. Again as stated before in other threads it is an option it is not viable in most instances as you typically just die. If you check old war images of M4 tanks, you will see that not all of them had turret mounted .50cals. In Panther? It kind of creates this all-or-nothing theme, which is kind of sad if we're trying to have a serious discussion here. Maus at 7.0? All these three things are in fact WT top tier meta. Nope, reversing back takes forever, turning as well and will expose your sides, running forward to flank doesn't work either. 'German players' are not somehomogenous group, clearly people play different nations. In that experience, I have found that German vehicles mobility is adequate and generally competitive with these peers--despite all of the derisive talk you hear otherwise. Has 7.1 second reload (slower than 6.7s of the 105 L7 guns), -6 gun depression, and only 17.3 deg/sec traverse, so it doesn't fit gun handling meta. Oftentimes, if left unharnessed, the cannon birds have better potential to destroy multiple targets. The only way the Germans can use their strengths to dominate such maps is with good teamplay. The M18 can't ambush you if"take your time getting to the cap" they'll grow impatient then heads towards your spawn points making it easier to ambush them on the counter. The Panther by contrasthave close to no reverse. Long 88 can one shot a T__ but in my experience you have to go for the shot trap, which is a risky shot. Mobility is simply king in this game. But to argue the tiger 2 has a worse hull than the T series is a joke. Relative merit is in play here. Any player should understand that, especially new players! Its not like I am proposing to ram the enemy. 1. jagdtiger having stupidly high Br at 7.3 arcade. Thats because the Germans don't have more modern light tanks in the game. Only part of Germany that suffers is really top tier air. Mobility - and this is actually the main point. Nope but you will have your own luxuries instead, the fact that you knew what he was trying to pull off and decided toplan his demise in advanceand he won't have aclue until its too late. And the overwhelming sense of hopelessness when the enemy team finds outhowithappened, that moment alone is to die for. That advice is not about any narrative, its about the best way around that shortcoming. The ATGMs aren't common place but considering germany doesn't get SS.11s until 7.7 it does show the extreme technology advantage the brits have. 3. As far as I know, nothing about that have been mentioned since it was "being worked on" back in 2017. According to the complaint, Germany suffers terribly under the weight of uptiers. Is this what we might expect at some point? Most american team comps I see are at least 80% heavy tanks but they get away with it because their heavies can actually reliably bounce shots. Slow speed handling of the Panther is also very bad, making it a bad brawler in CQC situations where you most likely would have to turn with the traverse to get on target in that tank. Sit in cover, spot an enemy in third person, pop out, shoot and repeat. I haven't had a single game with Germany either on the same or enemy team without there being a single puma. Forming a wide line and covering each other. The basic problem with this grievance is that people figure they need to have a vehicle as fast as their enemies to win--you dont. And that brings me to the issues with the economy, the game's economy is soulcrushing, now I do understand that you need people to spend money (and for what it's worth I have), but there is little to no enjoyment for the average player in the game. Panther 2s didnt disappear. A dreaded sight for aircraft and ground vehicles alike, the F-4F Phantom II provides a strong air superiority fighter and supremely potent ground attacker to German pilots. But only at long range. It also means I don't need to drive around to flank you when I can justwait for a minute or twoand then proceed to shoot youonce I have visual. Tried to flank with the Tortoise? (This topic will likely be flooded by people doing exactly this or otherwise trying to hijack the thread.). I "like" how you start out this topic with some kind of meme-theme, that there's nothing to it more than it being perceived as "suffering!" No matter how well you argue or what evidence you cite, you will inevitably be attacked by the people who cling to beliefs of German victimhood if you speak out against it--the believers dont want to hear dissent--just know about that. Asparagus can be eaten raw as well as cooked, it is used as a remedy for urinary .

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